Anyone for another election?

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ordeneus	Anyone for another election?	Lead	[-]
Posts: 1015 (12/02/08 09:25:18) Fuck religion! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None So... The Conservatives have tabled a budget bill that includes the following: Removal of the rights of Civil servants to strike. (NDP would never vote for this) No assistance for the auto industry, thus killing Ontario (Liberals would never vote for this) So, in response the Liberals tabled a motion of no confidence in the Government. The vote is on Monday, if passed, no more Harper government... The Liberals and the NDP have signed a formal coalition pact, and the Bloc are in there as well. So, assuming that the no confidence passes then the game moves to Michelle Jean (boo hiss). She would have 3 choices: Suspend Parliament, which would be freaking amazing. Allow the coalition to govern, and ta da, Dione is your new Prime Minister until 2010. Force a general election, and I'd bet we'd be in exactly the same state as we are now. The Conservatives are already spinning this as some kind of coup! Err, alright then. They got less votes than they did at the previous election, more people voted against them than for them. What d'ya think? I hate the fact the Jean has a say in this, it should be a black and white rule, not up to some unelected representative of the monarch of another nation (Queenypoo). We need proportional representation. The Bloc = 10% of the vote, 50 seats. Greens = 7% of the vote, ZERO seats. Hunh? Dione said he was stepping down in May... Does that still stand? I think the majority of Candians would be happy with anyone that wasn't Harper. "Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest."- Denis Diderot
Dream King668		#1	[-]
Posts: 3274 (12/02/08 10:28:47) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I forget where I read it, but an economist was saying that it would be foolhardy for the Tories to give a bailout to the Ontario Auto-sector before the US gives one to theirs. Or rather to wait and see if the US gives one to theirs. As for the coalition government, I would argue that given this last election was actually a vote of confidence of who was a better leader, Dion or Harper, which Dion resoundingly lost, I would say, I would take this to the Canadian people and ask them in a single question vote, whom would they rather have governing the country, the Coalition lead by Dion or the Conservatives lead by Harper. "One pound of flesh, no more no less. No cartilage, no bone, but only flesh. This task done, and he would go free."
ordeneus		#2	[-]
Posts: 1017 (12/02/08 11:20:50) Fuck religion! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	But, the last election was NOT a referendum on Harper / Dion was it? That's simply your reading of it. Clearly Canadians are divided, we can't agree who should run things, however, the majority of us don't want Harper... "Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest."- Denis Diderot
Dream King668		#3	[-]
Posts: 3275 (12/02/08 14:37:22) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	If the last election was anything other than a reforendom on Harper and Dion it is news to me, the partiest didn't have any platforms that they were pushing, nothing that they were pushing, the only platform out there was the Green Shift. the Tories came out with a platform like a week before the elections. I remember Ducepp giving Harper a real zinger about that in the debates. Agree, the Majority don't want Harper, but the Majority also don't want Dion, Layton May or Duceppe. I saw a headline which suggested that the best government for Canada would be a Tory-Liberal unity government. "One pound of flesh, no more no less. No cartilage, no bone, but only flesh. This task done, and he would go free."
ordeneus		#4	[-]
Posts: 1018 (12/02/08 17:46:35) Fuck religion! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Well, the only way this is ever going to be resolved in Canada, is with a formal pact (like they do in Europe) or some kind of proportional representation that would better reflect Candian's views. You're right in that there is no leader who command the majority, so, how do we resolve this? We can't keep having elections every five minutes, so, a formal pact is the only way to go surely? "Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest."- Denis Diderot
Dream King668		#5	[-]
Posts: 3277 (12/03/08 00:43:25) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I am not against the idea of one however in European countries and in Israel in which that is common, voters are told in advance which parties have formal agreements with whom so that when they vote, they know who else they may be getting. In such a situation as we currently have, I do believe that an national plebiscite on the question of the Tories or the Coalition government is one which needs to be made, this is especially important given that the Bloc is involved and many Canadians have a visceral issue with them. "One pound of flesh, no more no less. No cartilage, no bone, but only flesh. This task done, and he would go free."
ordeneus		#6	[-]
Posts: 1022 (12/03/08 14:15:37) Fuck religion! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	There's NOTHING in this proposal that is improper, and there's no precedent whatsoever for a plebiscite. This is simply how Parliamentary democracies work. Remember you did NOT elect a Prime Minister, nobody did. We elected a House of Commons. They choose the PM, not the public. So, until the majority of the house of commons is on board there is no PM! Personally I have no problem with the Bloc agreeing to vote with the coalition. It's not going to bring up any succession talks. The Bloc has MANY policies, not just succession. "Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest."- Denis Diderot
Sick Rose Studio		#7	[-]
Posts: 1054 (12/03/08 16:47:11) Industrial Mafia Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	"this is especially important given that the Bloc is involved and many Canadians have a visceral issue with them. " The Bloc would be (and has been) just as involved in maintaining a Conservative minority against the Liberals and NDP. Under the proposed coalition they wouldn't have any places in cabinet, and would be no more involved in government than they have been under Harper. For him to bring up separatist influence in this context is nothing but a pathetic, and hypocritical lie to distract from his own failure to maintain a functioning government. "Patriotism is the virtue of the wicked." ~Oscar Wilde Last Edited By: Sick Rose Studio 12/03/08 16:49:13. Edited 1 times.
CHR15		#8	[-]
Posts: 85 (12/03/08 18:39:50) Industrial Mafia Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Bring on the coalition. It seems like a no brainer to me. There's no need for another election. They have majority support from our democratically elected house. The conservatieves have a minority. They can no longer provide stability unless they resort to some pretty extraordinary measures which i don't expect. A coalition government will provide stability. Last Edited By: CHR15 12/03/08 18:41:54. Edited 1 times.
ordeneus		#9	[-]
Posts: 1023 (12/03/08 21:10:51) Fuck religion! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Pretty much my thoughts too, either now, or in January, the Conservatives are out. No stability at all. At least with the coalition we'd get till 2010. "Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest."- Denis Diderot
ordeneus		#10	[-]
Posts: 1024 (12/04/08 09:20:25) Fuck religion! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Witness the power of a far off Monarch... The Queen's proxy has granted Harper's wishes, and suspended Parliament. Despite being given notice that the Prime Minister no longer has the confidence of the house (without which he cannot govern). Wow, just peachy. Now Harper will subject us all to 6 weeks of Government funded Conservative propaganda. Sooner or later he has to realise he's in a MINORITY. He cannot do anything without convincing one of the opposition parties to work with him. Amazing stuff, dictatorial powers being exercised by Queenie poo. Can you imagine if all a Government had to do to avoid being voted out by it's own elected body is simply to suspend it? What is this, fucking Zimbabwe? "Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest."- Denis Diderot
Dream King668		#11	[-]
Posts: 3282 (12/04/08 10:56:24) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Ordi, that brings in some interesting questions about the state of be a Commonwealth Country, being a constitutional monarchy. I am curious as to your thoughts on that. Would Canada be better of as a Republic? "One pound of flesh, no more no less. No cartilage, no bone, but only flesh. This task done, and he would go free."
ordeneus		#12	[-]
Posts: 1025 (12/04/08 11:05:06) Fuck religion! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Definitely. I think any unelected power is reprehensible in a democracy. You are right, we have just had a powerful demonstration that we are a constitutional monarchy, and NOT a pure play democracy. The head of Canada is NOT Parliament, it's the Queen of England! And she just proved it. Edit: I should add, that technically I don't think the GG had that much choice. Having all the opposition MP's sign a piece of paper isn't the same as an actual vote, so, technically (as they haven't lost a vote yet) the Conservatives do still command the confidence of the house... Not for long though I'm guessing. The throne speech will be the firs tchance to kick them out. "Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest."- Denis Diderot Last Edited By: ordeneus 12/04/08 13:48:45. Edited 1 times.
Sick Rose Studio		#13	[-]
Posts: 1055 (12/05/08 10:04:38) Industrial Mafia Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	So now we effectively have no government for the next six weeks, at which point we're back exactly where we are now. Coalition or election, and even if there is another election, the only way for Harper to hold on to power is to win a majority this time, otherwise we're again back at the situation we're in now (failing a Liberal minority that is) All of this at a time when we need an effective government more than ever. The last leader to pull this shit was Charles I...and the English dealt with him accordingly. "Patriotism is the virtue of the wicked." ~Oscar Wilde
CHR15		#14	[-]
Posts: 86 (12/05/08 13:10:33) Industrial Mafia Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	the under handed tactics being used by the conservative governemnt are dispicable. It's depressing to hear the outright lies that they have been spouting, and to see people buy into them because we live in a sound bite culture and no one is willing to do a little bit of research.
ordeneus		#15	[-]
Posts: 1026 (12/05/08 17:27:51) Fuck religion! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	It's for the good of the country though, nothing to do with them clinging to power, oh no! "Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest."- Denis Diderot
cheekie devil		#16	[-]
Posts: 7238 (12/05/08 20:36:51) Giga-WOPs of Power! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I'm curious how many people -now- railing about Harper actually voted. Wasn't the turnout like 39% or something ridiculously abysmal? "Some people say that life's a game - if this is so I'd like to know the rules by which the game of life is played."
ordeneus		#17	[-]
Posts: 1027 (12/05/08 23:26:46) Fuck religion! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Oh yeah, pathetically low. It would seem we're all fed up with elections. "Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest."- Denis Diderot
LucianMortim		#18	[-]
Posts: 108 (12/08/08 00:25:39) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I'm so sorry to say, I saw that coming a mile away. These are dark days in the world (the economy is the least of our woes, in fact: the distraction and excuse for the REAL dilemma facing humanity). It almost doesn't pay for ones sense of well being in the current climate to have a "tin foil hat". Wouldn't it be a nice feeling to have the security of feeling that there weren't people doing everything they could to take away any amount of freedom we have, and the even more horrifying realization that the majority of people will unknowingly beg for their own slavery? Why can't the "conspiracy theories" be wrong? It would be a wonderful world if they were. What is wrong with the human race? Take a look at the state of affairs in the UK, and Australia. Sound like a fun thing to look forward to? Enjoying the dozens of CCTV cameras dotting every other street corner in the Vancouver area and suburbs right now? Has anyone even noticed? hint, camera technology doesn't nessisarily have to resemble the kind of things you'd see from the cold war era-You are being watched..now...who are you being watched by? I'm not so sure, myself Let's hope, and do everything we can, to see to it that freedom persists. We can't, as any citizen of any country in the world stand by idly and allow freedom to be torn from us. If one believes in the idea of a free society with the people as the source of the power, it requires the people to ensure that this isn't slowly chipped away at. The petty concerns of our social ills pale in comparison to that of losing the beauty that is freedom. The idiots that drive us nuts are a welcome diversion from the real evils that are present the world. Action is essential to any hope of a free humanity, however violence is just a justification to discredit any who treasure liberty by those who wish to take it from us. In fact, it is an old political tactic (may or may not be at work in our current "global" i.e. the US and British empires, manufactured "financial crisis") to create violent misdirected "action" in the population of a democratic society and cause either a dictatorial overthrow, a state of total martial law in response (to "keep the peace"), or even to sell out a sovereign nation to a foreign power pulling the strings from afar. Don't fall into the illusion of political rhetoric. Do everything you can to keep anyone you can from doing so as well. This is a good argument to do thorough research into the histories hint into every one of the politicians that we elect to act "on our behalf". Who is Stephen Harper? Who is Gordon Brown? Who is George W Bush? hmmmm... It reads like a mafia family that's gone multinational. Many a "good family man" has slaughtered millions in cold blood without remorse when given the opportunity. Many a smooth talking person with a good smile will kiss babies and swear to serve the oppressed obliterates the same people when the opportunity to do so presents an opportunity to their political career, or that of those who control their actions. It pays to be well versed in history, not just of your own country or political system, but world history from every fathomable perspective. What one learns in an organized school system is only as accurate as the agenda that it serves. Tyranny doesn't always appear as tyranny in it's propaganda. Tyranny can even be presented in that of the polar opposite. Language doesn't change reality, it only approaches it from a different perspective. In reality, language enslaves us as much as it empowers us, if it is assumed that it is the ultimate reality. Thankfully, not every elected official in the world works against the people who trust in them. There are those who risk their reputations (or in some cases, worse) for those that trust in them. How many times have I heard in my life, "But, but, the queen is just a symbolic power." Is it now? It should be assumed at all times that if one has a ability to abuse power, they most likely will when it is in their best interests to do so. Who are the worse traitors of the human race? The people who oppress humanity, or the fucking retards to vote for those who oppress humanity democratically, and trust that insane amounts of authority won't be abused? Be aware, folks. Bread a circuses are the staple of an absolute dictatorship. Is that what you really want? Sinful fucking Industrial music
LucianMortim		#19	[-]
Posts: 109 (12/08/08 00:35:03) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	. Sinful fucking Industrial music
ordeneus		#20	[-]
Posts: 1028 (12/09/08 09:30:28) Fuck religion! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Not quite sure what a "Bread a circus" is, but anyway: CBC Linky Dion is gone. Rae is out. Ignatieff is going to be your new LIberal leader, and he's not down with the coalition so much. Now I guess there are three scenarios in play: Liberals back down and prop up the Conservative government in January. Not sure why they would, but I could see it., Tories cling to power for a little while longer. Coalition takes over. Yet another election. My guess would be Ignatieff props up the Tories for a bit, then decides he wants a mandate and forces another election, which will change nothing, and here we freaking go again! "Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest."- Denis Diderot

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